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	<title>Comments for TFN Insider</title>
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	<link>http://tfninsider.org</link>
	<description>The Official Blog of the Texas Freedom Network</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 02:00:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Cynthia Dunbar: Legislators Can&#8217;t Make Laws &#8216;Contrary to What God Has Said&#8217; by Breckenridge</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2012/05/22/cynthia-dunbar-says-legislators-cant-make-laws-contrary-to-what-god-has-said/#comment-28878</link>
		<dc:creator>Breckenridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 02:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfninsider.org/?p=17252#comment-28878</guid>
		<description>All founding fathers were not created equal.  Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and, to some exent, Adams and Hamilton were the predominant political thinkers of the operation. I suppose Dunbar would call them 6-percenters.

&quot;The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.&quot; Thomas Jefferson, 1814.

&quot;I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved - the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!&quot; John Adams, 1816.

&quot;What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.&quot; James Madison, 1785.

&quot;As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble.&quot; Ben Franklin, 1789.

&quot;In politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. Heresies in either can rarely be cured by persecution.&quot; Alexander Hamilton</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All founding fathers were not created equal.  Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and, to some exent, Adams and Hamilton were the predominant political thinkers of the operation. I suppose Dunbar would call them 6-percenters.</p>
<p>&#8220;The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.&#8221; Thomas Jefferson, 1814.</p>
<p>&#8220;I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved &#8211; the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!&#8221; John Adams, 1816.</p>
<p>&#8220;What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.&#8221; James Madison, 1785.</p>
<p>&#8220;As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble.&#8221; Ben Franklin, 1789.</p>
<p>&#8220;In politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. Heresies in either can rarely be cured by persecution.&#8221; Alexander Hamilton</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cynthia Dunbar: Legislators Can&#8217;t Make Laws &#8216;Contrary to What God Has Said&#8217; by Ben</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2012/05/22/cynthia-dunbar-says-legislators-cant-make-laws-contrary-to-what-god-has-said/#comment-28869</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 01:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfninsider.org/?p=17252#comment-28869</guid>
		<description>Nutty as ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nutty as ever.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cynthia Dunbar: Legislators Can&#8217;t Make Laws &#8216;Contrary to What God Has Said&#8217; by Coragyps</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2012/05/22/cynthia-dunbar-says-legislators-cant-make-laws-contrary-to-what-god-has-said/#comment-28866</link>
		<dc:creator>Coragyps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 01:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfninsider.org/?p=17252#comment-28866</guid>
		<description>&quot;who is now a law professor at Liberty University&quot;

I think I&#039;ve found part of the problem here...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;who is now a law professor at Liberty University&#8221;</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ve found part of the problem here&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cynthia Dunbar: Legislators Can&#8217;t Make Laws &#8216;Contrary to What God Has Said&#8217; by Charles</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2012/05/22/cynthia-dunbar-says-legislators-cant-make-laws-contrary-to-what-god-has-said/#comment-28850</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 00:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfninsider.org/?p=17252#comment-28850</guid>
		<description>well, uh, it looks as if they had that freedom because they have done it on numerous occasions in numerous subject matter areas and legal contexts. Wal-Mart is still open on Sunday. Freedom is as freedom does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, uh, it looks as if they had that freedom because they have done it on numerous occasions in numerous subject matter areas and legal contexts. Wal-Mart is still open on Sunday. Freedom is as freedom does.</p>
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		<title>Comment on David Barton Misleads Again by Charles</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2012/05/21/david-barton-misleads-again/#comment-28834</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 22:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfninsider.org/?p=17234#comment-28834</guid>
		<description>Breckinridge brings up an extremely salient point.  If you look at the full spectrum of religious right nuttery or fruitcakiness, the very worst of it does indeed come from the bowels and urinary tract of Calvinism and so-called &quot;reformed theology,&quot; which also has Calvinist roots. 

Rousas Rushdoony was a Calvinist, and Christian fundamentalism itself was born in the same Princeton University Calvinist crucilble that enabled Rushdoony.  Francis Schaeffer was a Calvinist.  D. James Kennedy was a Calvinist.  Numerous other Lords of the Religious Right were and are Calvinists. Interestingly, the religious righters that hijacked the Southern Baptist Convention in 1979 are being heavily criticized by Baptist pastors (the ones not afraid to speak up) for taking the SBC in a decidedly &quot;Calvinist direction&quot; over the past 33 years.  These two people are also Calvinists:

http://www.pearceyreport.com/

http://totaltruthbook.com/

Nancy Pearcy, who claims to possess &quot;total truth,&quot; (How scary is that?) is actually an employee of the Discovery Institute.

Several years ago, I pointed this anomaly out to Randall Balmer at Barnard College (Columbia University).  He said that he had never noticed this, but seemed to be glad that I pointed it out to him.  Of course, my key question to him was: &quot;Why is Calvinism the root of so very much that spews out of the Religious Right?&quot;  Well, he did not have an immediate answer because he had really never noticed it, but he promised to think on it some.

Thank you for being so observant and astute Breckinridge and for calling this to the attention of TFN.  I was begining to think that I was the only person who ever noticed this.

I can think of possibly one thing about Calvinism that might---just possibly---be the key factor here.  Calvinism is founded at least partially on the concept of &quot;predestination.&quot;  This means that God picks out the people that are and are not going to be saved by Jesus even before they are ever born.  In Calvinism, God is reduced to being the ultimate chessmaster of the universe, moving pawns and kings around the board in whichever way suits his fancy.  In addition, this concept, taken a short step further, would advocate the notion that everything that happens in our universe, great and small, is predestined to happen by God.  In other words, if a glob of snot falls out of your nose and lands on your pencil eraser during a staff meeting, God prescheduled that to happen at exactly 3:05 p.m.  When Cindy, sitting across the conference room table from you, shreeked &quot;Oooooo!!!! Snot!!!&quot; at the site of your glob, that reaction at that precise moment was itself preordained from the foundation of the world.

Well, if your entire goal in life is to be a danger religious right fruitcake, Calvinism has the unique utility of giving you a license to do anything you want to do.  For example, let&#039;s pretend you are a Calvinist and 500 people disagree with your fruitcake &quot;Christian Reconstructionist&quot; theology.  Anyone who disagees with your theology is an enemy of God, and the enemies of God must be destroyed.  Therefore, you kill them in God&#039;s name.  A day or two rolls by and he thinks back on the executions:

&quot;Was that the right thing to do?  Well, it would have happened only if the Lord had predestined it to happen.  Therefore, it was what was supposed to happen all along.  God must have arranged it, so I am off the hook.&quot;

This is the kind of extended distortion of scripture and theology that Islamic extremists reach for when they want to crash airplanes into tall buildings.

So, in summary and just as a hypothesis to test, I would pose that some of the fruitcake Calvinists think (by some weird extension) that the concept of predestination gives them a free license to do whatever evil thing they want to do in our world and then soothe what tiny shred of conscience they might have left by blaming it all on God.  Comedian Flip Wilson had the right idea here: &quot;Duh debble made me do it.&quot;  With the strung out Calvinists: &quot;God must have made me do it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Breckinridge brings up an extremely salient point.  If you look at the full spectrum of religious right nuttery or fruitcakiness, the very worst of it does indeed come from the bowels and urinary tract of Calvinism and so-called &#8220;reformed theology,&#8221; which also has Calvinist roots. </p>
<p>Rousas Rushdoony was a Calvinist, and Christian fundamentalism itself was born in the same Princeton University Calvinist crucilble that enabled Rushdoony.  Francis Schaeffer was a Calvinist.  D. James Kennedy was a Calvinist.  Numerous other Lords of the Religious Right were and are Calvinists. Interestingly, the religious righters that hijacked the Southern Baptist Convention in 1979 are being heavily criticized by Baptist pastors (the ones not afraid to speak up) for taking the SBC in a decidedly &#8220;Calvinist direction&#8221; over the past 33 years.  These two people are also Calvinists:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pearceyreport.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.pearceyreport.com/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://totaltruthbook.com/" rel="nofollow">http://totaltruthbook.com/</a></p>
<p>Nancy Pearcy, who claims to possess &#8220;total truth,&#8221; (How scary is that?) is actually an employee of the Discovery Institute.</p>
<p>Several years ago, I pointed this anomaly out to Randall Balmer at Barnard College (Columbia University).  He said that he had never noticed this, but seemed to be glad that I pointed it out to him.  Of course, my key question to him was: &#8220;Why is Calvinism the root of so very much that spews out of the Religious Right?&#8221;  Well, he did not have an immediate answer because he had really never noticed it, but he promised to think on it some.</p>
<p>Thank you for being so observant and astute Breckinridge and for calling this to the attention of TFN.  I was begining to think that I was the only person who ever noticed this.</p>
<p>I can think of possibly one thing about Calvinism that might&#8212;just possibly&#8212;be the key factor here.  Calvinism is founded at least partially on the concept of &#8220;predestination.&#8221;  This means that God picks out the people that are and are not going to be saved by Jesus even before they are ever born.  In Calvinism, God is reduced to being the ultimate chessmaster of the universe, moving pawns and kings around the board in whichever way suits his fancy.  In addition, this concept, taken a short step further, would advocate the notion that everything that happens in our universe, great and small, is predestined to happen by God.  In other words, if a glob of snot falls out of your nose and lands on your pencil eraser during a staff meeting, God prescheduled that to happen at exactly 3:05 p.m.  When Cindy, sitting across the conference room table from you, shreeked &#8220;Oooooo!!!! Snot!!!&#8221; at the site of your glob, that reaction at that precise moment was itself preordained from the foundation of the world.</p>
<p>Well, if your entire goal in life is to be a danger religious right fruitcake, Calvinism has the unique utility of giving you a license to do anything you want to do.  For example, let&#8217;s pretend you are a Calvinist and 500 people disagree with your fruitcake &#8220;Christian Reconstructionist&#8221; theology.  Anyone who disagees with your theology is an enemy of God, and the enemies of God must be destroyed.  Therefore, you kill them in God&#8217;s name.  A day or two rolls by and he thinks back on the executions:</p>
<p>&#8220;Was that the right thing to do?  Well, it would have happened only if the Lord had predestined it to happen.  Therefore, it was what was supposed to happen all along.  God must have arranged it, so I am off the hook.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the kind of extended distortion of scripture and theology that Islamic extremists reach for when they want to crash airplanes into tall buildings.</p>
<p>So, in summary and just as a hypothesis to test, I would pose that some of the fruitcake Calvinists think (by some weird extension) that the concept of predestination gives them a free license to do whatever evil thing they want to do in our world and then soothe what tiny shred of conscience they might have left by blaming it all on God.  Comedian Flip Wilson had the right idea here: &#8220;Duh debble made me do it.&#8221;  With the strung out Calvinists: &#8220;God must have made me do it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on David Barton Misleads Again by Doc Bill</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2012/05/21/david-barton-misleads-again/#comment-28820</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 21:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfninsider.org/?p=17234#comment-28820</guid>
		<description>What comes out of the fossilized scripture mind of Barton is irrelevant.  Totally.  Who cares if the Constitution was founded on the Bible or Harry Potter.  Who cares what Jefferson thought, or ate, or wrote?  Perhaps fun subjects to discuss on the back porch with a beer.

But, irrelevant.

Number one.  We in the 21st century run the country, not Jefferson.   Thank you, Mr. Jefferson, for your insight but times change and so do we.  We&#039;ll keep the stuff that works and toss the stuff that doesn&#039;t.

Number two.  The Constitution is a living document.  It has changed a few times since Jefferson and the world has not come to an end.  It will change more over time, too.

I really lose patience with the Bronze Age &quot;thinkers,&quot; and I use the term very lightly, like Barton and his fellow undereducated followers.  It doesn&#039;t matter TODAY one whit whether Jefferson was a Christian or not 200 years ago.  Sorry, just not relevant to our society.  Barton clings to his imaginary past because he doesn&#039;t have the intellect to propose shaping the future.  He&#039;s a spent charge, a damp squib;  a source of derision, scorn and ridicule, but nothing else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What comes out of the fossilized scripture mind of Barton is irrelevant.  Totally.  Who cares if the Constitution was founded on the Bible or Harry Potter.  Who cares what Jefferson thought, or ate, or wrote?  Perhaps fun subjects to discuss on the back porch with a beer.</p>
<p>But, irrelevant.</p>
<p>Number one.  We in the 21st century run the country, not Jefferson.   Thank you, Mr. Jefferson, for your insight but times change and so do we.  We&#8217;ll keep the stuff that works and toss the stuff that doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Number two.  The Constitution is a living document.  It has changed a few times since Jefferson and the world has not come to an end.  It will change more over time, too.</p>
<p>I really lose patience with the Bronze Age &#8220;thinkers,&#8221; and I use the term very lightly, like Barton and his fellow undereducated followers.  It doesn&#8217;t matter TODAY one whit whether Jefferson was a Christian or not 200 years ago.  Sorry, just not relevant to our society.  Barton clings to his imaginary past because he doesn&#8217;t have the intellect to propose shaping the future.  He&#8217;s a spent charge, a damp squib;  a source of derision, scorn and ridicule, but nothing else.</p>
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		<title>Comment on David Barton Misleads Again by Breckenridge</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2012/05/21/david-barton-misleads-again/#comment-28793</link>
		<dc:creator>Breckenridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 18:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfninsider.org/?p=17234#comment-28793</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s interesting because no record exists of either the Bible or Christianity being discussed during the 4 month long Constitutional Convention. In fact the only religious episode occured one morning when deist Ben Franklin suggested opening the session with a prayer. The motion was seconded by Roger Sherman; however it was then met with a flurry of objections and failed to pass.

On a related(right wing evangelical) topic after a considerable amount of reading - Jeferson, Madison, John Locke, Priestey, Diderot, Montesquieu - I&#039;ve concluded that this world would be a much better place if John Calvin had never lived.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s interesting because no record exists of either the Bible or Christianity being discussed during the 4 month long Constitutional Convention. In fact the only religious episode occured one morning when deist Ben Franklin suggested opening the session with a prayer. The motion was seconded by Roger Sherman; however it was then met with a flurry of objections and failed to pass.</p>
<p>On a related(right wing evangelical) topic after a considerable amount of reading &#8211; Jeferson, Madison, John Locke, Priestey, Diderot, Montesquieu &#8211; I&#8217;ve concluded that this world would be a much better place if John Calvin had never lived.</p>
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		<title>Comment on David Barton Misleads Again by Gary Cooper</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2012/05/21/david-barton-misleads-again/#comment-28741</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 17:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfninsider.org/?p=17234#comment-28741</guid>
		<description>What I like best about that clip is that Barton is speaking to a mostly-empty auditorium.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I like best about that clip is that Barton is speaking to a mostly-empty auditorium.</p>
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		<title>Comment on David Barton Misleads Again by der Brat</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2012/05/21/david-barton-misleads-again/#comment-28737</link>
		<dc:creator>der Brat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 16:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfninsider.org/?p=17234#comment-28737</guid>
		<description>What I find a bit odd about Barton&#039;s claim of verbatim quoting from the bible is that I have never seen either Hebrew or Greek anywhere in the Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find a bit odd about Barton&#8217;s claim of verbatim quoting from the bible is that I have never seen either Hebrew or Greek anywhere in the Constitution.</p>
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		<title>Comment on David Barton Misleads Again by NutsAreEverywhere</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2012/05/21/david-barton-misleads-again/#comment-28728</link>
		<dc:creator>NutsAreEverywhere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 15:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfninsider.org/?p=17234#comment-28728</guid>
		<description>What a malicious,dangerous fool.

I wonder if he is a pathological liar?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a malicious,dangerous fool.</p>
<p>I wonder if he is a pathological liar?</p>
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