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	<title>Comments on: Whose Values?</title>
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	<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/</link>
	<description>A Mainstream Voice to Counter the Religious Right</description>
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		<title>By: CDM</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/#comment-4849</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CDM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/?p=3059#comment-4849</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is compassion a freedom that we have or something that should be forced upon us? 
Look, I hate the fact that people go without healthcare. It sucks, but am I the only one that is scared about the fact that we are no longer going to get a &quot;free-look&quot; period that was promised before it gets voted on? Transperancy? How are we supposed to trust that we have somehow come up with a plan better than Canada or the U.K.? 

I had surgery a few months ago that under a universal health care system would be deemed as a non-emergency procedure. I missed alot of work. What kind of waiting list would I go on before I could have a surgery like that? Is it true that in some countries, if you have a greater chance of dying, then you will not be a priority? Where is the compassion in that?

What about the economic impact of this? Forget the deficit and the taxes that will forced upon us. What about jobs? How many jobs are reliant on the current health care system? Not just processors, doctors, nurses..but salespeople, long term care insurance companies, health insurance companies, etc. People will lose their jobs, and the government will be there to rock their cradle when that happens. More government jobs, more dependency on government. The closer we get to complete reliance on the government, the closer we&#039;ll be to _________. If you have the argument of, health insurance companies will be fine because employers can still carry health coverage. What employer is going to continue to pay costs out of their pocket if people can get it for free elsewhere? These collapse of these companies will drive long term care costs up, as well.  Long term care is broken into two categories of people. One, the people pay for insurance and get to choose how they recieve their care. Two, the government gets to choose, but before the government will take care of it, you have to spend down your assets to under $2000 and you have no choice how you recieve it. My point here (sorry, I got on a tangent) is that when we rely on the government, we lose the option of choice. 

Has everyone else considered the standard of living cut that they will take when a plan like this goes into effect? What has everyone else done to help there brothers and sisters afford healthcare? or are you waiting on the government to do something, so you don&#039;t have to be proactive? If you have given in some way, how will the government taking out of your pockets to achieve the same thing, affect your willingness to give? Keep in mind, you will have alot less money to give at that point. My point is, the more we depend on the government to do things for us, the more money it will take from us, and the less we will be willing to help our brothers and sisters ourselves. Charitable giving dollars (to a well-minded charity) will ALWAYS go alot further than what the government can do for the same money. That&#039;s government mandated compassion. That&#039;s not freedom. God gave us this free will to choose to do right and wrong. He didn&#039;t force the right choice upon us, just as no other leader should force that upon us. Let&#039;s figure out another way, and be proactive about it instead of waiting on our government to do that for us. 
That&#039;s my two cents. 
Blessings,]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is compassion a freedom that we have or something that should be forced upon us?<br />
Look, I hate the fact that people go without healthcare. It sucks, but am I the only one that is scared about the fact that we are no longer going to get a &#8220;free-look&#8221; period that was promised before it gets voted on? Transperancy? How are we supposed to trust that we have somehow come up with a plan better than Canada or the U.K.? </p>
<p>I had surgery a few months ago that under a universal health care system would be deemed as a non-emergency procedure. I missed alot of work. What kind of waiting list would I go on before I could have a surgery like that? Is it true that in some countries, if you have a greater chance of dying, then you will not be a priority? Where is the compassion in that?</p>
<p>What about the economic impact of this? Forget the deficit and the taxes that will forced upon us. What about jobs? How many jobs are reliant on the current health care system? Not just processors, doctors, nurses..but salespeople, long term care insurance companies, health insurance companies, etc. People will lose their jobs, and the government will be there to rock their cradle when that happens. More government jobs, more dependency on government. The closer we get to complete reliance on the government, the closer we&#8217;ll be to _________. If you have the argument of, health insurance companies will be fine because employers can still carry health coverage. What employer is going to continue to pay costs out of their pocket if people can get it for free elsewhere? These collapse of these companies will drive long term care costs up, as well.  Long term care is broken into two categories of people. One, the people pay for insurance and get to choose how they recieve their care. Two, the government gets to choose, but before the government will take care of it, you have to spend down your assets to under $2000 and you have no choice how you recieve it. My point here (sorry, I got on a tangent) is that when we rely on the government, we lose the option of choice. </p>
<p>Has everyone else considered the standard of living cut that they will take when a plan like this goes into effect? What has everyone else done to help there brothers and sisters afford healthcare? or are you waiting on the government to do something, so you don&#8217;t have to be proactive? If you have given in some way, how will the government taking out of your pockets to achieve the same thing, affect your willingness to give? Keep in mind, you will have alot less money to give at that point. My point is, the more we depend on the government to do things for us, the more money it will take from us, and the less we will be willing to help our brothers and sisters ourselves. Charitable giving dollars (to a well-minded charity) will ALWAYS go alot further than what the government can do for the same money. That&#8217;s government mandated compassion. That&#8217;s not freedom. God gave us this free will to choose to do right and wrong. He didn&#8217;t force the right choice upon us, just as no other leader should force that upon us. Let&#8217;s figure out another way, and be proactive about it instead of waiting on our government to do that for us.<br />
That&#8217;s my two cents.<br />
Blessings,</p>
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		<title>By: Cytocop</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/#comment-4767</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cytocop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/?p=3059#comment-4767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Charles.  You too.  :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Charles.  You too.  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/#comment-4688</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/?p=3059#comment-4688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I feel the kiss of Moses and David on your head Cytocop.  Happy July 4th.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel the kiss of Moses and David on your head Cytocop.  Happy July 4th.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Cytocop</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/#comment-4686</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cytocop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/?p=3059#comment-4686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What Christians call &quot;the Old Testament&quot; is full of stories of how our prophets railed against those who did not care for the stranger, the widow, the orphan; in other words, the underclass and those who could not speak for themselves.  

The Hebrew words for &quot;charity,&quot; &quot;righteousness,&quot; and &quot;justice&quot; are basically the same word.  So the meaning is clear: a charitable person is a righteous and just person, and vice versa.

I see no charity in the RR.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Christians call &#8220;the Old Testament&#8221; is full of stories of how our prophets railed against those who did not care for the stranger, the widow, the orphan; in other words, the underclass and those who could not speak for themselves.  </p>
<p>The Hebrew words for &#8220;charity,&#8221; &#8220;righteousness,&#8221; and &#8220;justice&#8221; are basically the same word.  So the meaning is clear: a charitable person is a righteous and just person, and vice versa.</p>
<p>I see no charity in the RR.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MaryOGrady</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/#comment-4683</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MaryOGrady]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/?p=3059#comment-4683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[it is a flat-out lie to say that all an uninsured person has to do is to go to an emergency room to get appropriate medical treatment. No emergency room will provide chemotherapy for cancer, for example, or the chronic, consistent care that a patient with uncontrolled Type I diabetes or uncontrolled epilepsy needs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it is a flat-out lie to say that all an uninsured person has to do is to go to an emergency room to get appropriate medical treatment. No emergency room will provide chemotherapy for cancer, for example, or the chronic, consistent care that a patient with uncontrolled Type I diabetes or uncontrolled epilepsy needs.</p>
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		<title>By: PHarvey</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/#comment-4679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PHarvey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/?p=3059#comment-4679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tom,

Charles Says: 

July 1, 2009 at 9:39 pm 
PHarvey. You suffer from a disease called intelligence and common sense. I wish for a plague of it.

That is a disease I&#039;m happy to die from.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>Charles Says: </p>
<p>July 1, 2009 at 9:39 pm<br />
PHarvey. You suffer from a disease called intelligence and common sense. I wish for a plague of it.</p>
<p>That is a disease I&#8217;m happy to die from.</p>
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		<title>By: Gloria</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/#comment-4674</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gloria]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/?p=3059#comment-4674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you have the stomach for it, go to:

http://www.gopusa.com/news/2009/july/0702_obama_health2.shtml

It is astonishing how they can shut down the voices of the uninsured and turn Obama&#039;s town hall meeting into politics.  We&#039;re up against a monster.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have the stomach for it, go to:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gopusa.com/news/2009/july/0702_obama_health2.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.gopusa.com/news/2009/july/0702_obama_health2.shtml</a></p>
<p>It is astonishing how they can shut down the voices of the uninsured and turn Obama&#8217;s town hall meeting into politics.  We&#8217;re up against a monster.</p>
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		<title>By: tom</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/#comment-4668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/?p=3059#comment-4668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nick, that&#039;s certainly the case. No matter what Obama/Congress does, it will be twisted to fit the RR&#039;s agenda. Bush was the one who started buying up all the troubled businesses, but that&#039;s forgotten already.

PHarvey, what doesn&#039;t kill you...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, that&#8217;s certainly the case. No matter what Obama/Congress does, it will be twisted to fit the RR&#8217;s agenda. Bush was the one who started buying up all the troubled businesses, but that&#8217;s forgotten already.</p>
<p>PHarvey, what doesn&#8217;t kill you&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/#comment-4665</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/?p=3059#comment-4665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Somehow, I think, that if the government hadn&#039;t bailed out the auto industry (at least), the same groups would be criticizing the administration for not doing anything and costing America jobs. Then they would reason that he hates America and wants it to become a socialist state.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow, I think, that if the government hadn&#8217;t bailed out the auto industry (at least), the same groups would be criticizing the administration for not doing anything and costing America jobs. Then they would reason that he hates America and wants it to become a socialist state.</p>
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		<title>By: PHarvey</title>
		<link>http://tfninsider.org/2009/07/01/whose-values/#comment-4660</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PHarvey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/?p=3059#comment-4660</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Charles.

With luck, I hope this is the disease that finally kills me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Charles.</p>
<p>With luck, I hope this is the disease that finally kills me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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